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	<title>Comments on: Others more interesting than myself</title>
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	<link>http://www.theoria.ca/theoria/archives/2008/09/others-more-interesting-than-myself.html</link>
	<description>Animal studies--and more!</description>
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		<title>By: Craig</title>
		<link>http://www.theoria.ca/theoria/archives/2008/09/others-more-interesting-than-myself.html/comment-page-1#comment-42927</link>
		<dc:creator>Craig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Sep 2008 15:11:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theoria.ca/theoria/?p=610#comment-42927</guid>
		<description>John, thanks for stopping by. If only you had left your prejudices at Crooked Timber!

You&#039;ve telegraphed your refusal to read Schmitt (and there is no reason, I suppose, why you &lt;i&gt;should&lt;/i&gt; read anyone, Schmitt included) in the second sentence; viz., &quot;why I should be interested &lt;i&gt;in a Nazi political theorist&lt;/i&gt;.&quot; It would seem there is nothing that can be said to convince you once you&#039;ve made this determination - and you haven&#039;t &lt;i&gt;really&lt;/i&gt; made this determination: you&#039;ve &quot;heard&quot; and you &quot;haven&#039;t read&quot;! From a position of &lt;i&gt;complete ignorance&lt;/i&gt;, you&#039;ve already written him off.

The two most frequently cited works of Schmitt are &lt;i&gt;Political Theology&lt;/i&gt; and &lt;i&gt;Concept of the Political&lt;/i&gt;. Both &lt;i&gt;predate&lt;/i&gt; his Nazi involvement. His intellectual production during the Nazi regime was quite limited and clearly reveal - as accused by the S.S. - that he was an opportunist rather than a believer. Clearly Schmitt, as an individual, desired power and influence. This lead to a series of rather unfortunate decisions that can only be characterized as stupid and crass. (You might think of Schmitt as the Cass Sunstein of his day - he&#039;ll say anything to get that Supreme Court appointment.)

Now, that he wrote these two works prior to his Nazi involvement (both, by the way, are clearly written as Weberian political sociology) should lead us to the question - paraphrasing ADA Paul Robinette&#039;s eternal question - is Schmitt a Nazi legal theorist or a legal theorist who was a Nazi? I&#039;d put my money on the latter. 

Of course, this is all a red herring: whether he was a Nazi or a good liberal has little bearing on whether or not his analysis is correct. Reducing the question to political affiliation is a refusal to engage with ideas.

The same argument works relative to your comparison to Yoo. I disagree with Yoo, therefore I can reject Schmitt. This is sloppy and lazy - and it is why Yoo, Rumsfeld and Cheney are always going to win.

Your claim &lt;i&gt;seems&lt;/i&gt; (I don&#039;t know - &quot;anticipates&quot; is rather vague) that Schmitt is both responsible for the Nazis and responsible for rendition, indefinite detention, and torture. This, of course, is complete lunacy born out of ignorance. (Although if this were true, it would be a pretty damn compelling reason to read Schmitt - although you&#039;ve already written him.) Schmitt is not paving the way for the replacement of legality by illegality or of normalcy by the exception, but providing a &lt;i&gt;warning&lt;/i&gt; about both. Schmitt&#039;s point is that liberal democracies are structured such that they have no effective means of combatting developments such as these. The legal question Schmitt is asking is how are these situations created. This is different from the political question of whether they should be created or not. The point he underlines is that liberals are unable to address that these gaps exist in the law and the legal order - recently called &quot;constitutional black holes&quot; in reference to the US. He isn&#039;t advocating Guantanamo, he&#039;s warning us about it. He&#039;s telling us that positivist and post-positivist legal theory is unable to account for the existence of this problem and, therefore, cannot provide an analysis of the problem at all. (Positivist refusal to engage in this problem is seen, for instance, in Hart&#039;s ridiculous attack on Austen. The question of violence in relation to law is one that must be bracketed in order to discuss the normal operation of the law.)

Last point about Schmitt - my cereal is gone and my coffee is getting cold! - is that I&#039;ll be the first to admit that most &quot;uses&quot; of Schmitt (including many of those in, say, &lt;i&gt;Telos&lt;/i&gt;) aren&#039;t very good and provide poor interpretations of Schmitt and are limited to a small number of his texts. But, this isn&#039;t so much a symptom of Schmitt-scholarship as it is a symptom of the structure of academic practice: &quot;theory&quot; is &quot;applied&quot; to &quot;data&quot; with the result that most academic work is little more than proof-texting. 

Finally, I guess by your standard we shouldn&#039;t read - say - Rawls or Kant because they are both dead except in philosophy departments. Pretty shoddy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John, thanks for stopping by. If only you had left your prejudices at Crooked Timber!</p>
<p>You&#8217;ve telegraphed your refusal to read Schmitt (and there is no reason, I suppose, why you <i>should</i> read anyone, Schmitt included) in the second sentence; viz., &#8220;why I should be interested <i>in a Nazi political theorist</i>.&#8221; It would seem there is nothing that can be said to convince you once you&#8217;ve made this determination &#8211; and you haven&#8217;t <i>really</i> made this determination: you&#8217;ve &#8220;heard&#8221; and you &#8220;haven&#8217;t read&#8221;! From a position of <i>complete ignorance</i>, you&#8217;ve already written him off.</p>
<p>The two most frequently cited works of Schmitt are <i>Political Theology</i> and <i>Concept of the Political</i>. Both <i>predate</i> his Nazi involvement. His intellectual production during the Nazi regime was quite limited and clearly reveal &#8211; as accused by the S.S. &#8211; that he was an opportunist rather than a believer. Clearly Schmitt, as an individual, desired power and influence. This lead to a series of rather unfortunate decisions that can only be characterized as stupid and crass. (You might think of Schmitt as the Cass Sunstein of his day &#8211; he&#8217;ll say anything to get that Supreme Court appointment.)</p>
<p>Now, that he wrote these two works prior to his Nazi involvement (both, by the way, are clearly written as Weberian political sociology) should lead us to the question &#8211; paraphrasing ADA Paul Robinette&#8217;s eternal question &#8211; is Schmitt a Nazi legal theorist or a legal theorist who was a Nazi? I&#8217;d put my money on the latter. </p>
<p>Of course, this is all a red herring: whether he was a Nazi or a good liberal has little bearing on whether or not his analysis is correct. Reducing the question to political affiliation is a refusal to engage with ideas.</p>
<p>The same argument works relative to your comparison to Yoo. I disagree with Yoo, therefore I can reject Schmitt. This is sloppy and lazy &#8211; and it is why Yoo, Rumsfeld and Cheney are always going to win.</p>
<p>Your claim <i>seems</i> (I don&#8217;t know &#8211; &#8220;anticipates&#8221; is rather vague) that Schmitt is both responsible for the Nazis and responsible for rendition, indefinite detention, and torture. This, of course, is complete lunacy born out of ignorance. (Although if this were true, it would be a pretty damn compelling reason to read Schmitt &#8211; although you&#8217;ve already written him.) Schmitt is not paving the way for the replacement of legality by illegality or of normalcy by the exception, but providing a <i>warning</i> about both. Schmitt&#8217;s point is that liberal democracies are structured such that they have no effective means of combatting developments such as these. The legal question Schmitt is asking is how are these situations created. This is different from the political question of whether they should be created or not. The point he underlines is that liberals are unable to address that these gaps exist in the law and the legal order &#8211; recently called &#8220;constitutional black holes&#8221; in reference to the US. He isn&#8217;t advocating Guantanamo, he&#8217;s warning us about it. He&#8217;s telling us that positivist and post-positivist legal theory is unable to account for the existence of this problem and, therefore, cannot provide an analysis of the problem at all. (Positivist refusal to engage in this problem is seen, for instance, in Hart&#8217;s ridiculous attack on Austen. The question of violence in relation to law is one that must be bracketed in order to discuss the normal operation of the law.)</p>
<p>Last point about Schmitt &#8211; my cereal is gone and my coffee is getting cold! &#8211; is that I&#8217;ll be the first to admit that most &#8220;uses&#8221; of Schmitt (including many of those in, say, <i>Telos</i>) aren&#8217;t very good and provide poor interpretations of Schmitt and are limited to a small number of his texts. But, this isn&#8217;t so much a symptom of Schmitt-scholarship as it is a symptom of the structure of academic practice: &#8220;theory&#8221; is &#8220;applied&#8221; to &#8220;data&#8221; with the result that most academic work is little more than proof-texting. </p>
<p>Finally, I guess by your standard we shouldn&#8217;t read &#8211; say &#8211; Rawls or Kant because they are both dead except in philosophy departments. Pretty shoddy.</p>
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		<title>By: John Quiggin</title>
		<link>http://www.theoria.ca/theoria/archives/2008/09/others-more-interesting-than-myself.html/comment-page-1#comment-42925</link>
		<dc:creator>John Quiggin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Sep 2008 06:54:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theoria.ca/theoria/?p=610#comment-42925</guid>
		<description>OK, I&#039;ll bite. As I noted in my comment, I haven&#039;t read Schmitt and when I ask why I should be interested in a Nazi political theorist they say things like &quot;Guantanamo Bay is a perfect example of the state of exception&quot; (apologies if I have the jargon wrong here). So, if I have it right, Schmitt anticipates John Yoo pretty well. But why should I want to study either of them except in the sense that pathologists might want to study the HIV virus? And, given limited time, why not study Yoo, who is alive and dangerous, rather than Schmitt who is dead and (except in certain parts of the academic left and far right) disregarded?

I know I&#039;m being snarky here, but if you can point me to any reason at all why I should think of Schmitt as having something of value to offer the left, I&#039;ll happily look at it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK, I&#8217;ll bite. As I noted in my comment, I haven&#8217;t read Schmitt and when I ask why I should be interested in a Nazi political theorist they say things like &#8220;Guantanamo Bay is a perfect example of the state of exception&#8221; (apologies if I have the jargon wrong here). So, if I have it right, Schmitt anticipates John Yoo pretty well. But why should I want to study either of them except in the sense that pathologists might want to study the HIV virus? And, given limited time, why not study Yoo, who is alive and dangerous, rather than Schmitt who is dead and (except in certain parts of the academic left and far right) disregarded?</p>
<p>I know I&#8217;m being snarky here, but if you can point me to any reason at all why I should think of Schmitt as having something of value to offer the left, I&#8217;ll happily look at it.</p>
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		<title>By: Rob</title>
		<link>http://www.theoria.ca/theoria/archives/2008/09/others-more-interesting-than-myself.html/comment-page-1#comment-42924</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Sep 2008 23:12:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theoria.ca/theoria/?p=610#comment-42924</guid>
		<description>In a schematic sense, I think that one reason that the left picked up on Schmitt is the same reason they picked up on Lenin, Mao, Gramsci etc. because they sense that the &#039;Marxism&#039; of their day lacks a theory of political action (or that the &#039;Marxism&#039; of the past lacked such). Whilst I don&#039;t think it is true to say that Marx himself had not theory of the political, it has often been the case that &#039;official&#039; Marxism has lacked such a theorisation (and Marx is as always confused on the issue). This is actually something I&#039;ve wanted to discuss for a while but have never (and probably will never) got round to properly.

Craig, I&#039;d definitely agree that they seem to have misjudged Agamben&#039;s relationship with Schmitt. It&#039;s particularly telling (I think) that Foucault doesn&#039;t seem to pop up much in that conversation at all. But it seems to me that Agamben&#039;s reading of Foucault (and biopolitics more generally) is pretty crucial to his use of Schmitt and may even supplement those parts of Schmitt which their quoted section finds attractive.

Some of those comments really do seem rather uninformed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In a schematic sense, I think that one reason that the left picked up on Schmitt is the same reason they picked up on Lenin, Mao, Gramsci etc. because they sense that the &#8216;Marxism&#8217; of their day lacks a theory of political action (or that the &#8216;Marxism&#8217; of the past lacked such). Whilst I don&#8217;t think it is true to say that Marx himself had not theory of the political, it has often been the case that &#8216;official&#8217; Marxism has lacked such a theorisation (and Marx is as always confused on the issue). This is actually something I&#8217;ve wanted to discuss for a while but have never (and probably will never) got round to properly.</p>
<p>Craig, I&#8217;d definitely agree that they seem to have misjudged Agamben&#8217;s relationship with Schmitt. It&#8217;s particularly telling (I think) that Foucault doesn&#8217;t seem to pop up much in that conversation at all. But it seems to me that Agamben&#8217;s reading of Foucault (and biopolitics more generally) is pretty crucial to his use of Schmitt and may even supplement those parts of Schmitt which their quoted section finds attractive.</p>
<p>Some of those comments really do seem rather uninformed.</p>
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		<title>By: bjk</title>
		<link>http://www.theoria.ca/theoria/archives/2008/09/others-more-interesting-than-myself.html/comment-page-1#comment-42922</link>
		<dc:creator>bjk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Sep 2008 15:06:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theoria.ca/theoria/?p=610#comment-42922</guid>
		<description>So why did the left pick up Schmitt? Was it because of the critique of neutral liberalism, and the leftists wanted to reintroduce &quot;the political&quot;? Not very many people have read  Earth in the International Law of the Jus Publicum Europeaum, so they don&#039;t see that his distinction between liberal wars (blockades and aerial bombing: Iraq War I) and political wars, which involve protego ergo obligo (Iraq War II) are more relevant than his discussion of the sovereign (ultimately a critique of liberal neutrality, the neutral state which is like a vending machine, submit your ballot and pick up your services). But again, why does the left seem attracted to Schmitt? I didn&#039;t get much of a sense that anybody at CT, including Berube, has read Schmitt.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So why did the left pick up Schmitt? Was it because of the critique of neutral liberalism, and the leftists wanted to reintroduce &#8220;the political&#8221;? Not very many people have read  Earth in the International Law of the Jus Publicum Europeaum, so they don&#8217;t see that his distinction between liberal wars (blockades and aerial bombing: Iraq War I) and political wars, which involve protego ergo obligo (Iraq War II) are more relevant than his discussion of the sovereign (ultimately a critique of liberal neutrality, the neutral state which is like a vending machine, submit your ballot and pick up your services). But again, why does the left seem attracted to Schmitt? I didn&#8217;t get much of a sense that anybody at CT, including Berube, has read Schmitt.</p>
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		<title>By: Craig</title>
		<link>http://www.theoria.ca/theoria/archives/2008/09/others-more-interesting-than-myself.html/comment-page-1#comment-42921</link>
		<dc:creator>Craig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Sep 2008 19:12:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theoria.ca/theoria/?p=610#comment-42921</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s not especially good on Agamben - I doubt that he is a &quot;radical democrat&quot; (at least in the ordinary sense of the word) and it gets his relation to Schmitt wrong. Had the passage remained under discussion, it would have been of interest. But, it seems that liberal internationalist cosmopolitans are unable to deal with Agamben or Schmitt in any reasonable way - at least Brenkman makes the effort. Idiotic comments are the norm at Crooked Timber when either Schmitt or Agamben is discussed. I&#039;ll reserve judgment on their left-economics, comic books, and social networking posts as I don&#039;t know anything about those.(And I see that John Emerson is still hurting from being told in no uncertain terms that he doesn&#039;t understand Schmitt or Strauss and why he is wrong about them - and I see that he refused to consider the possibility that he is wrong.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s not especially good on Agamben &#8211; I doubt that he is a &#8220;radical democrat&#8221; (at least in the ordinary sense of the word) and it gets his relation to Schmitt wrong. Had the passage remained under discussion, it would have been of interest. But, it seems that liberal internationalist cosmopolitans are unable to deal with Agamben or Schmitt in any reasonable way &#8211; at least Brenkman makes the effort. Idiotic comments are the norm at Crooked Timber when either Schmitt or Agamben is discussed. I&#8217;ll reserve judgment on their left-economics, comic books, and social networking posts as I don&#8217;t know anything about those.(And I see that John Emerson is still hurting from being told in no uncertain terms that he doesn&#8217;t understand Schmitt or Strauss and why he is wrong about them &#8211; and I see that he refused to consider the possibility that he is wrong.)</p>
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		<title>By: Rob</title>
		<link>http://www.theoria.ca/theoria/archives/2008/09/others-more-interesting-than-myself.html/comment-page-1#comment-42920</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Sep 2008 19:04:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theoria.ca/theoria/?p=610#comment-42920</guid>
		<description>Do you really find the passage interesting? Whilst it possibly does say something about Schmitt, it strikes me that it really doesn&#039;t seem that applicable to Agamben.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do you really find the passage interesting? Whilst it possibly does say something about Schmitt, it strikes me that it really doesn&#8217;t seem that applicable to Agamben.</p>
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