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	<title>Comments on: Race and State</title>
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	<link>http://www.theoria.ca/theoria/archives/2006/03/race-and-state.html</link>
	<description>Animal studies--and more!</description>
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		<title>By: Craig</title>
		<link>http://www.theoria.ca/theoria/archives/2006/03/race-and-state.html/comment-page-1#comment-912</link>
		<dc:creator>Craig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Mar 2006 04:30:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theoria.ca/theoria/archives/2006/03/race-and-state.html#comment-912</guid>
		<description>If we take Foucault seriously, ideology critique -- or, as in that article I referenced at Long Sunday citing Edward Said, &quot;speaking truth to power&quot; -- is impossible.  It becomes nothing more than a strategic move.  So, yes, I too find ideology critique uncompelling... yet, at the same time, there&#039;s something in the science/ideology distinction (i.e., Althusser&#039;s spinozist dialectic) that remains oddly compelling.  There remains a need -- a need that goes beyond politics -- to say that something is just simply not true; that it is a lie.  But, still, I find Foucault&#039;s suggestion that knowledge and power meet in discourse to be somewhat compelling as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If we take Foucault seriously, ideology critique &#8212; or, as in that article I referenced at Long Sunday citing Edward Said, &#8220;speaking truth to power&#8221; &#8212; is impossible.  It becomes nothing more than a strategic move.  So, yes, I too find ideology critique uncompelling&#8230; yet, at the same time, there&#8217;s something in the science/ideology distinction (i.e., Althusser&#8217;s spinozist dialectic) that remains oddly compelling.  There remains a need &#8212; a need that goes beyond politics &#8212; to say that something is just simply not true; that it is a lie.  But, still, I find Foucault&#8217;s suggestion that knowledge and power meet in discourse to be somewhat compelling as well.</p>
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		<title>By: Nate</title>
		<link>http://www.theoria.ca/theoria/archives/2006/03/race-and-state.html/comment-page-1#comment-911</link>
		<dc:creator>Nate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Mar 2006 03:13:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theoria.ca/theoria/archives/2006/03/race-and-state.html#comment-911</guid>
		<description>Hi Craig,

Empiricist conception, I like that term. A sort of working hypothesis, no? Which one does not take, as you put it, as absolute or axiomatic but rather as propositions. 

I don&#039;t mean to posit some new world-historical method to be found here. I just found the distinction you suggested helped me start to put some words to some things I&#039;d been having trouble articulating. Like the example of Guantanamo and Auschwitz that you mentioned at mine - I can see a reason, a rhetorical and political use, for positing their identity in the way Agamben&#039;s work suggests. And I think the theoretical work there is, or can be interesting (particularly in the case of Agamben on camps, in part for the provocative conclusion - camps can be hotels and airport terminals, any physical site), and really interesting is in the eye of the beholder right? I can also see reasons for wanting to ask after differences between Auschwitz and Guantanamo, particularly if they&#039;re differences in the sense of differentiating two different cases of the same kind. What I was trying to say at mine was that while I&#039;m not compelled by Ideology Critique, which seems something like theory in the sense you&#039;re using, a pretty uncontroversial family-resemblance term in circles like ours, but I do of course see places for ideology critique in which the operation is, I think, less a matter of theory and more a matter of I don&#039;t know what, whatever it is one calls inquiry into differences between two cases of the same kind a la Auschwitz and Guantanomo. I hope that makes some sense.

Take care,
Nate</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Craig,</p>
<p>Empiricist conception, I like that term. A sort of working hypothesis, no? Which one does not take, as you put it, as absolute or axiomatic but rather as propositions. </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t mean to posit some new world-historical method to be found here. I just found the distinction you suggested helped me start to put some words to some things I&#8217;d been having trouble articulating. Like the example of Guantanamo and Auschwitz that you mentioned at mine &#8211; I can see a reason, a rhetorical and political use, for positing their identity in the way Agamben&#8217;s work suggests. And I think the theoretical work there is, or can be interesting (particularly in the case of Agamben on camps, in part for the provocative conclusion &#8211; camps can be hotels and airport terminals, any physical site), and really interesting is in the eye of the beholder right? I can also see reasons for wanting to ask after differences between Auschwitz and Guantanamo, particularly if they&#8217;re differences in the sense of differentiating two different cases of the same kind. What I was trying to say at mine was that while I&#8217;m not compelled by Ideology Critique, which seems something like theory in the sense you&#8217;re using, a pretty uncontroversial family-resemblance term in circles like ours, but I do of course see places for ideology critique in which the operation is, I think, less a matter of theory and more a matter of I don&#8217;t know what, whatever it is one calls inquiry into differences between two cases of the same kind a la Auschwitz and Guantanomo. I hope that makes some sense.</p>
<p>Take care,<br />
Nate</p>
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		<title>By: Craig</title>
		<link>http://www.theoria.ca/theoria/archives/2006/03/race-and-state.html/comment-page-1#comment-910</link>
		<dc:creator>Craig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Mar 2006 16:48:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theoria.ca/theoria/archives/2006/03/race-and-state.html#comment-910</guid>
		<description>Foucault does, indeed, say that in a number of places (&#039;SMBD&#039;, HSI, a number of interviews contemporary with those works, and again in the two essays that form &quot;The Subject and Power&quot;).  This comment has largely been misunderstood in Anglo-American scholarship.  The comment, of course, is both flippant and serious; the majority of Foucault&#039;s most interesting suggestions have this character, which results in their being misunderstood -- Anglo-Americans, in general, can&#039;t read!

So, first, the title of his Chair at the College de France was &quot;History of Systems of Thought&quot;.  This is, I think, to be understood both genealogically and archeaologically.  (Anglo-Americans, in general, leave out the earlier archaeological phase.  Possibly because his works of this phase are far more complex and seemingly less relevant...)

Now, getting to the analytics/theory distinction.  Largely this distinction has been used as a way to avoid theorizing and rigorous thought -- Nik Rose&#039;s &lt;em&gt;Powers of Freedom&lt;/em&gt;, for instance, doesn&#039;t have to be coherent because it isn&#039;t &#039;theory&#039;, it&#039;s &#039;analytics&#039;.  This misses the point.  The relation between the two is mildly paradoxical because analytics is already a theoretical object!  The way we are to understand the distinction, for Foucault, is to recognize what he&#039;s attempting to do with power at this point: it is to distinguish power from the form in which it is coded, hence any particular means of coding a power relation -- discipline, sovereign, biopolitical, class war, commodity, etc -- is secondary to the relation itself.  The result of this, or, perhaps, the point of this, is to &#039;desubstantialize&#039; power and transform it into a relation between forces.

Separating &#039;power&#039; from its &#039;code&#039; is, I think, an attempt on his part to reject a priori conceptions of power and, thus, an attempt to move towards an empiricist conception of power that doesn&#039;t take absolutes or axioms as the point of departure, but &#039;suggestions&#039; and &#039;propositions&#039;; the most famous of which is the priority of resistance over power.  This, of course, is a moderately confusing way of presenting the suggestion, but it likely has more to do with the limits of language than a geneal incoherence -- it might be better said that resistance constitutes a relation of power.  A further part of his point is to resist attempts to define an &#039;essence&#039; to power: &lt;em&gt;this&lt;/em&gt; is power.  This, also, is another way of saying that the local and the surface is privileged over the abstract and &#039;theoretical&#039;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Foucault does, indeed, say that in a number of places (&#8216;SMBD&#8217;, HSI, a number of interviews contemporary with those works, and again in the two essays that form &#8220;The Subject and Power&#8221;).  This comment has largely been misunderstood in Anglo-American scholarship.  The comment, of course, is both flippant and serious; the majority of Foucault&#8217;s most interesting suggestions have this character, which results in their being misunderstood &#8212; Anglo-Americans, in general, can&#8217;t read!</p>
<p>So, first, the title of his Chair at the College de France was &#8220;History of Systems of Thought&#8221;.  This is, I think, to be understood both genealogically and archeaologically.  (Anglo-Americans, in general, leave out the earlier archaeological phase.  Possibly because his works of this phase are far more complex and seemingly less relevant&#8230;)</p>
<p>Now, getting to the analytics/theory distinction.  Largely this distinction has been used as a way to avoid theorizing and rigorous thought &#8212; Nik Rose&#8217;s <em>Powers of Freedom</em>, for instance, doesn&#8217;t have to be coherent because it isn&#8217;t &#8216;theory&#8217;, it&#8217;s &#8216;analytics&#8217;.  This misses the point.  The relation between the two is mildly paradoxical because analytics is already a theoretical object!  The way we are to understand the distinction, for Foucault, is to recognize what he&#8217;s attempting to do with power at this point: it is to distinguish power from the form in which it is coded, hence any particular means of coding a power relation &#8212; discipline, sovereign, biopolitical, class war, commodity, etc &#8212; is secondary to the relation itself.  The result of this, or, perhaps, the point of this, is to &#8216;desubstantialize&#8217; power and transform it into a relation between forces.</p>
<p>Separating &#8216;power&#8217; from its &#8216;code&#8217; is, I think, an attempt on his part to reject a priori conceptions of power and, thus, an attempt to move towards an empiricist conception of power that doesn&#8217;t take absolutes or axioms as the point of departure, but &#8217;suggestions&#8217; and &#8216;propositions&#8217;; the most famous of which is the priority of resistance over power.  This, of course, is a moderately confusing way of presenting the suggestion, but it likely has more to do with the limits of language than a geneal incoherence &#8212; it might be better said that resistance constitutes a relation of power.  A further part of his point is to resist attempts to define an &#8216;essence&#8217; to power: <em>this</em> is power.  This, also, is another way of saying that the local and the surface is privileged over the abstract and &#8216;theoretical&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>By: What in the hell &#8230; :: &#8230; is the point of ideology critique? :: March :: 2006</title>
		<link>http://www.theoria.ca/theoria/archives/2006/03/race-and-state.html/comment-page-1#comment-909</link>
		<dc:creator>What in the hell &#8230; :: &#8230; is the point of ideology critique? :: March :: 2006</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Mar 2006 08:08:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theoria.ca/theoria/archives/2006/03/race-and-state.html#comment-909</guid>
		<description>[...] That said, there&#8217;s clearly a place for ideology critique writ small, like when bosses simply lie or say things that are not about their propositional contents but perform something (like a threat or act of intimidation). K-punk has a post recently that&#8217;s pretty illustrative of this (though I disagree w/ him in the arguments about Zizek/with Chabert). I don&#8217;t know what to make of K-punk&#8217;s theoretical descriptions of the situation (I don&#8217;t share a lot of the idiom he uses) nor am I sure what it adds to attempts to do this kind of (really important) lowercase ideology critique. Those attempts, I think, fall less under the realm of theory than of something else. (Craig&#8217;s post on racism posed a distinction I found really helpful, this is how I mean the &#8216;not theory&#8217; comment here, it&#8217;s not meant to be any &#8216;anti-theory&#8217; performance on my part, just wish I had a term for that other thing&#8230;.) This reminds me that I want to do a post on the steps of a housevisit/one-on-one, to get my head clearer on it again - the stuff I&#8217;m talking about here as lower case or writ small ideology critique is basically what I call innoculation in housevisits. More on this later. Now it&#8217;s bedtime.    Comments &#187; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] That said, there&#8217;s clearly a place for ideology critique writ small, like when bosses simply lie or say things that are not about their propositional contents but perform something (like a threat or act of intimidation). K-punk has a post recently that&#8217;s pretty illustrative of this (though I disagree w/ him in the arguments about Zizek/with Chabert). I don&#8217;t know what to make of K-punk&#8217;s theoretical descriptions of the situation (I don&#8217;t share a lot of the idiom he uses) nor am I sure what it adds to attempts to do this kind of (really important) lowercase ideology critique. Those attempts, I think, fall less under the realm of theory than of something else. (Craig&#8217;s post on racism posed a distinction I found really helpful, this is how I mean the &#8216;not theory&#8217; comment here, it&#8217;s not meant to be any &#8216;anti-theory&#8217; performance on my part, just wish I had a term for that other thing&#8230;.) This reminds me that I want to do a post on the steps of a housevisit/one-on-one, to get my head clearer on it again &#8211; the stuff I&#8217;m talking about here as lower case or writ small ideology critique is basically what I call innoculation in housevisits. More on this later. Now it&#8217;s bedtime.    Comments &raquo; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Nate</title>
		<link>http://www.theoria.ca/theoria/archives/2006/03/race-and-state.html/comment-page-1#comment-908</link>
		<dc:creator>Nate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Mar 2006 07:18:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theoria.ca/theoria/archives/2006/03/race-and-state.html#comment-908</guid>
		<description>Hi Craig,

Thanks very much for this. I found this bit here really helpful: 

&quot;One could hardly claim that Buchenwald and Guantanamo Bay are camps of a different sort. Giorgio Agamben has more than adequately demonstrated that they are nearly one and the same. The problem, then, isn’t one of structure or form — that is, it isn’t a theoretical problem — the problem, rather, is one of technologies and practices.&quot;

This sounds like a flippant or sarcastic question in my head but I don&#039;t mean it that way. The former, structure and form are of theory, thought and writing that addresses/analyzes them is theoretical. What&#039;s a term for (in noun and adjectival form) for thought that takes on the latter, technologies and practices? Is it something like intellectual history, history of thought (or whatever Foucault&#039;s chair was)? Maybe analytics? (Didn&#039;t Foucault say once that he wasn&#039;t working on a theory of power so much as an analytics of power?) I mean this really seriously, because I think this difference you hit on here describes what is for me a pretty big divide in my own interests at least recently - I&#039;m excited about the stuff in the latter category way more than stuff in the former category - and I&#039;d like a term for it. By the way, have you ever had a chance to read the essay on technology by Raniero Panzieri? (The name escapes me, I think it might be &quot;Marx vs the objectivists.)

Best wishes,
Nate</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Craig,</p>
<p>Thanks very much for this. I found this bit here really helpful: </p>
<p>&#8220;One could hardly claim that Buchenwald and Guantanamo Bay are camps of a different sort. Giorgio Agamben has more than adequately demonstrated that they are nearly one and the same. The problem, then, isn’t one of structure or form — that is, it isn’t a theoretical problem — the problem, rather, is one of technologies and practices.&#8221;</p>
<p>This sounds like a flippant or sarcastic question in my head but I don&#8217;t mean it that way. The former, structure and form are of theory, thought and writing that addresses/analyzes them is theoretical. What&#8217;s a term for (in noun and adjectival form) for thought that takes on the latter, technologies and practices? Is it something like intellectual history, history of thought (or whatever Foucault&#8217;s chair was)? Maybe analytics? (Didn&#8217;t Foucault say once that he wasn&#8217;t working on a theory of power so much as an analytics of power?) I mean this really seriously, because I think this difference you hit on here describes what is for me a pretty big divide in my own interests at least recently &#8211; I&#8217;m excited about the stuff in the latter category way more than stuff in the former category &#8211; and I&#8217;d like a term for it. By the way, have you ever had a chance to read the essay on technology by Raniero Panzieri? (The name escapes me, I think it might be &#8220;Marx vs the objectivists.)</p>
<p>Best wishes,<br />
Nate</p>
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		<title>By: Craig</title>
		<link>http://www.theoria.ca/theoria/archives/2006/03/race-and-state.html/comment-page-1#comment-897</link>
		<dc:creator>Craig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Mar 2006 20:36:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theoria.ca/theoria/archives/2006/03/race-and-state.html#comment-897</guid>
		<description>Old: please do.  For my part, I&#039;ve taken SMDB and HSI off my shelf and have browsed them again.  Quite a worthwhile thing to do.  I&#039;ve been writing on and off about these works for quite some time now, maybe I&#039;ll actually be inspired this time to formalize the thoughts and publish them...  (But, do recall Kotsko&#039;s &#039;law of bloggers&#039; -- they don&#039;t follow through on promises!)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Old: please do.  For my part, I&#8217;ve taken SMDB and HSI off my shelf and have browsed them again.  Quite a worthwhile thing to do.  I&#8217;ve been writing on and off about these works for quite some time now, maybe I&#8217;ll actually be inspired this time to formalize the thoughts and publish them&#8230;  (But, do recall Kotsko&#8217;s &#8216;law of bloggers&#8217; &#8212; they don&#8217;t follow through on promises!)</p>
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		<title>By: old</title>
		<link>http://www.theoria.ca/theoria/archives/2006/03/race-and-state.html/comment-page-1#comment-895</link>
		<dc:creator>old</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Mar 2006 11:59:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theoria.ca/theoria/archives/2006/03/race-and-state.html#comment-895</guid>
		<description>Craig, more later (and unfortunately, it is a very busy day). But I must first register disagreement (actually I should first thank you for continuing the conversation in a way that is extraordinarily helpful) with the idea this &quot;The first issue to note is that the eighteenth century concept of race differed significantly from our current use of the word. This obscure and mostly forgotten concept of race is the one that Foucault is talking about.&quot;  Foucault makes it abundantly clear (especially in the last part of the History of Sexuality) that this is, in fact, all about contemporary racism, eugenics, the modern nuclear situation.  Miller&#039;s Passion of Michel Foucault biography furthers this understanding.  Again, more later.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Craig, more later (and unfortunately, it is a very busy day). But I must first register disagreement (actually I should first thank you for continuing the conversation in a way that is extraordinarily helpful) with the idea this &#8220;The first issue to note is that the eighteenth century concept of race differed significantly from our current use of the word. This obscure and mostly forgotten concept of race is the one that Foucault is talking about.&#8221;  Foucault makes it abundantly clear (especially in the last part of the History of Sexuality) that this is, in fact, all about contemporary racism, eugenics, the modern nuclear situation.  Miller&#8217;s Passion of Michel Foucault biography furthers this understanding.  Again, more later.</p>
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		<title>By: Craig</title>
		<link>http://www.theoria.ca/theoria/archives/2006/03/race-and-state.html/comment-page-1#comment-894</link>
		<dc:creator>Craig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Mar 2006 05:11:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theoria.ca/theoria/archives/2006/03/race-and-state.html#comment-894</guid>
		<description>There&#039;s a few potential replies and I&#039;m not sure how convinced I am by any of them, but here we go.  

First, the Europeans weren&#039;t ignorant of non-Europeans insofar as ethnographical accounts were widely read.  Pierre Clastres does a lot of work with the more or less standard European horror at the South American tribes: a people without god, king or law.  To an extent, then, race isn&#039;t entirely separable from the rest of the world; albeit the rest of the world from a European perspective.

Second, there&#039;s a sense in which race-thinking of the early modern sort might be more cognizant of difference than the modern people.  The people erases internlal differences while race is a proliferation of difference.  (Franks, Gauls, Angles, Saxons, Goths, Visogoths, Romans, Trojans, etc, etc.)

Third, might we not want to consider putting race into the genealogy of the multitude?  There is reason to do so: Boulainvilliers introduced Spinoza into France and wrote extensive commentaries on Spinoza -- including the political works.  (He also wrote a book on Mohammed.)

Fourth, might we not consider a parallel between, say, the Rwandan genocide and European race thinking?

Fifth, I know next to nothing about non-North America, non-Europe and likely shouldn&#039;t say much more less I make a fool of myself!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s a few potential replies and I&#8217;m not sure how convinced I am by any of them, but here we go.  </p>
<p>First, the Europeans weren&#8217;t ignorant of non-Europeans insofar as ethnographical accounts were widely read.  Pierre Clastres does a lot of work with the more or less standard European horror at the South American tribes: a people without god, king or law.  To an extent, then, race isn&#8217;t entirely separable from the rest of the world; albeit the rest of the world from a European perspective.</p>
<p>Second, there&#8217;s a sense in which race-thinking of the early modern sort might be more cognizant of difference than the modern people.  The people erases internlal differences while race is a proliferation of difference.  (Franks, Gauls, Angles, Saxons, Goths, Visogoths, Romans, Trojans, etc, etc.)</p>
<p>Third, might we not want to consider putting race into the genealogy of the multitude?  There is reason to do so: Boulainvilliers introduced Spinoza into France and wrote extensive commentaries on Spinoza &#8212; including the political works.  (He also wrote a book on Mohammed.)</p>
<p>Fourth, might we not consider a parallel between, say, the Rwandan genocide and European race thinking?</p>
<p>Fifth, I know next to nothing about non-North America, non-Europe and likely shouldn&#8217;t say much more less I make a fool of myself!</p>
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		<title>By: Jodi</title>
		<link>http://www.theoria.ca/theoria/archives/2006/03/race-and-state.html/comment-page-1#comment-893</link>
		<dc:creator>Jodi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Mar 2006 04:55:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theoria.ca/theoria/archives/2006/03/race-and-state.html#comment-893</guid>
		<description>Craig--but, the US is not only the current regime. Doug&#039;s position requires that it be, which is necessarily non-historical; also with your account of the 18th century and the nobles--not all the world is Europe, hence, there are differing models of states and differing senses of people. Even as I object, though, I value your intervention here. Thanks! (and, if I don&#039;t respond it&#039;s because I&#039;m at a meeting for the next couple of days...)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Craig&#8211;but, the US is not only the current regime. Doug&#8217;s position requires that it be, which is necessarily non-historical; also with your account of the 18th century and the nobles&#8211;not all the world is Europe, hence, there are differing models of states and differing senses of people. Even as I object, though, I value your intervention here. Thanks! (and, if I don&#8217;t respond it&#8217;s because I&#8217;m at a meeting for the next couple of days&#8230;)</p>
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